DMR Monitor - turning it off. . .

JimFielder

When using a dmr server that has several talk groups, and linked to one of them, you hear all the traffic on other talk groups - how do you turn off monitor?

HA2NON

The M1KE transmits what it receives from the server. Unlink the talkgroups you don't want to hear. Talkgroup linking/unlinking is managed entirely by the server/network and not the M1KE. You can read more about this at https://manuals.sharkrf.com/m1ke/basic/dmrusage.html

We recommend unlinking all dynamically linked talkgroups first by starting a short call to TG4000 and then call the TG you want to link.

KelloggKid

Sorry but I do not believe this is a link / unlink issue. The original poster (and my earlier post on the same topic) are referring to our experiences on a large DMR network comprised of both repeaters and MMDVM servers. The repeaters / servers have both static and dynamic talk groups assigned to them by their owners. They, and their users, would be most upset if we managed to "unlink" a static TG even if we were able to find a way to do so.

What this discussion is really about is finding a way to toggle "promiscuous" mode off and on. In a normal DMR radio, if Promiscuous Mode is toggled on, you not only hear the talk group you have selected but you also hear the the talk group that is in the other time slot on the repeater / server. So if an MMDVM server happens to have 2 static talk groups and you are trying to converse on one TG and someone is carrying on a conversation on the other TG which happens to be in the other time slot, you hear both conversations intermixed which is most confusing. That is why a normal DMR radio offers the option to silence the time slot opposite that of the TG you have selected. This is referred to as toggling Promiscuous Mode (or Monitor Mode) on and off.

A normal DMR radio has a code plug which defines each TG, it's time slot and color code so when you switch to a particular TG the radio knows which time slot you are conversing on and thus it knows which time slot it can silence when you turn Promiscuous Mode off. It is my understanding that the M1KE, which does not utilize any form of a code plug, has no way of knowing which time slot your TG is on, thus it has no way of knowing which time slot to silence. Of course that begs the question how does the M1KE know which time slot to transmit on when you select a particular TG.

HA2NON

The M1KE is a simplex DMR device and there are no timeslots used when no repeater is in use. Only repeaters use timeslots. The M1KE simply outputs to its speaker what it receives from the network.

KelloggKid

HA2NON The MMDVM servers that the original poster and I are connected to are, in fact dual slot devices. So it's not just repeaters that multiplex talk groups. I'm not being critical of the M1KE because as I said earlier without a code plug the M1KE has no way of knowing which time slot to suppress or open up. One of the things I enjoy about the M1KE is not having to establish and maintain a code plug so while lacking the ability to block the other time slot can be annoying it doesn't happen all that often and I can live with it.

HA2NON

Talkgroups are independent entities and not tied to a specific timeslot. It's up to the server/network if it links a talkgroup to a device.

Tyrbiter

It surprises me that people who are using these devices do not try to understand the inevitable compromises that each one requires in order to provide a wide range of functionality. It's also a matter for the Echolink developers as to why they offer a service that relies purely on IPv4 connectivity when we've know for 30 years that the the world is short of IPv4 addresses. CGNAT is a consequence of refusing to pressure ISPs into providing IPv6 connectivity.

JimFielder

Tyrbiter Since this is a DMR thread, leave your Echolink comments where they belong.

Tyrbiter

JimFielder Where do they belong?

I will accept that I did put them in the wrong thread (and I don't quite know why I did that), but I think they actually apply to a lot that goes on with these complex products in general. Users that want to use every last feature of a product need to understand what they are doing and how it should work and why it doesn't. SharkRF can't always anticipate everything, and their environment is inevitably different from many user's environments.

JimFielder

HA2NON I've been an OpenSpot user for years - way back to the first. The jump to the M1KE had that mind bender and a new setting MIC, it took me a bit to use the M1KE on DMR as there was no place to set the TG on previous OpenSpot devices as on a DMR radio you set the channel with the TG on the radio. The same with MONITOR, it is set at the radio - you choose to monitor or not. It would seem that the same could be happening here on the MIC settings - you select the TG (or destination), not see why you can't filter out the other talk groups that are on that server and are filtered out if you use a radio. I'm not talking about Brandmeister - we have a multistate server group that covers Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana. On the M1KE the MIC take the place of the radio channel settings. Not seeing why MONITOR could not be a choice.

HA2NON

The M1KE plays what it receives from the server. Only link the talkgroups you want to hear.

JimFielder

HA2NON I am linked to the talk group I want to be, however on the C Bridge there are several talk groups - DMR handles this with a monitor command - it's called DMR Promiscuous Mode, or Digital Monitor Mode, allows a DMR radio to receive all digital transmissions on a given frequency, regardless of the programmed talkgroup, color code, or timeslot. It acts as a "monitor" or "digital squelch off" function, letting all digital data be decoded, though the radio still needs the correct frequency and may be limited to listening on one or two timeslots, depending on the radio's settings. This feature is especially useful for initially identifying active talkgroups, color codes, and timeslots when tuning into a new repeater or hotspot, saving the user from needing to program every possible combination.
How Promiscuous Mode Works
Decodes all data: Unlike normal DMR operation, where a radio only responds to transmissions addressed to its programmed talkgroups, promiscuous mode decodes and passes all digital data it receives.
Bypass filtering: It essentially ignores the filters for Color Code (CC) and Talkgroup (TG) that would normally prevent reception.
Timeslot limitation: While it can decode all talkgroups, you typically still need to configure the radio for either Single Slot or Double Slot to receive transmissions from one or both timeslots, respectively.
Frequency specific: Promiscuous mode operates on a single frequency. You'll need to select a channel with the correct frequency for the system you want to monitor.
And all of our mmdvm servers on PNW Digital Network are dual slot. We can turn off monitoring and just hear one talk group.
Hope this makes sense now.

JimFielder

Tyrbiter this should be easily done, it's standard on dmr radios - it's called DMR Promiscuous Mode, or Digital Monitor Mode, allows a DMR radio to receive all digital transmissions on a given frequency, regardless of the programmed talkgroup, color code, or timeslot. It acts as a "monitor" or "digital squelch off" function, letting all digital data be decoded, though the radio still needs the correct frequency and may be limited to listening on one or two timeslots, depending on the radio's settings. This feature is especially useful for initially identifying active talkgroups, color codes, and timeslots when tuning into a new repeater or hotspot, saving the user from needing to program every possible combination.
How Promiscuous Mode Works
Decodes all data: Unlike normal DMR operation, where a radio only responds to transmissions addressed to its programmed talkgroups, promiscuous mode decodes and passes all digital data it receives.
Bypass filtering: It essentially ignores the filters for Color Code (CC) and Talkgroup (TG) that would normally prevent reception.
Timeslot limitation: While it can decode all talkgroups, you typically still need to configure the radio for either Single Slot or Double Slot to receive transmissions from one or both timeslots, respectively.
Frequency specific: Promiscuous mode operates on a single frequency. You'll need to select a channel with the correct frequency for the system you want to monitor.

Tyrbiter

JimFielder Agreed, however this is where the m1ke is a bit different, it doesn't have the code in it that a DMR radio would have to implement promiscuous mode, I'm not sure how you could do it given that omission.

HA2NON

There's no need for an RX group list or talkgroup filtering on the M1KE. Only link the talkgroups you want to hear and that's it.

JimFielder

HA2NON you can link to only one talk group - but C Bridges on have several talk groups - DMR handles this with a monitor command - it's called DMR Promiscuous Mode. I'm looking for switch to turn off promiscuous mode. We are not on a brandmeister server. . I AM ONLY LINKED TO ONE TALKGROUP and I still hear other talk groups as they are on the same C Bridge - I can only transmit on the talkgroup I'm linked to.

Tyrbiter

That's quite difficult when you are effectively being sent packets you have not asked for and have no control over, I suppose that there have been a lot of changes in how DMR networks are built, the C-Bridge software is pretty old now.

JimFielder

Tyrbiter you should look at the network that has been built in the PNW by PNWDigital.net

Tyrbiter

It looks impressive, however I see that it mentions MotoTRBO a lot and that means a lot of commercial kit that may well not behave how amateur operators want it to. I recall some difficulties like this about 8 or 9 years ago when I first used amateur DMR.

I can't see how the m1ke can control TGs that are sent to it if they are not marked as such and there is no facility for RxLists for this reason.

Maybe HA2NON could explain further how this works, I'm not a m1ke owner.

Just found this, https://pnwdigital.net/talkgroups-master-control/ which sounds a lot like what you are asking for, a way of isolating the TG you are using for communication.

JimFielder

Tyrbiter most of the folks in the region have moved over an adopted Anytone radios for use and they really seem to be inline with they way the system is built. Lots of really knowledgeable folks at the admin side. I was previously using OS3 and OS4Pro to access the system. The M1KE thru me for a loop as the talk groups were handled on the radio side and the monitor function was just a predefined button on the radio. The MIC function is where all the TG and audio is handled - stuff that is controlled in the radio. Most of the admins use the monitor function as they are overwatch on the network. I do net control duties a day or two a week and I keep it turned off as it prevents the clutter that can come when others are on another TG. I loved using the M1KE for net control duties, as it has a reasonable browser screen. Once last week, I had a individual on a crossover TG that is linked to Brandmeister and a DMR newbie on way overdriven audio that was interrupting my hearing checkins on the net. Since the MIC settings are where the TG's come from as well as audio, I'd think a monitor function would be feasible to program into the settings of this magical little devices. After all it is the Dark Magic Realm - DMR.